(UPDATED 13 March, see below.)
Yet another entry from the “You Can’t Make This Stuff Up” department. Now the CEO of the UKAS-accredited registrar British Assessment Bureau (BAB) is challenging critics of the ISO 9001 certification scheme to “stop talking” and start filing complaints against registrars. Because, you know, that works so well.
Over at LinkedIn, a user from Uganda that asked a question on how to stop certification bodies from offering consulting services. Out of the blue, David Fenn — the CEO of BAB — chimed in defending his profession, which would he honorable if he hadn’t stooped to the usual dirty tactics of insulting his audience in order to do so. Fenn began by falsely re-framing the question, and affirming that CB’s can perform consulting:
Sorry guys but it is incorrect to say that Certification Bodies (CBs) cannot provide consultancy under the restrictions of ISO 17021. It depends on the context. For sure, CBs may NOT offer consultancy to assist a client to secure certification. However, there is also a 2-year rule for when a CB is involved with a non-certification service to a client.
That condition wasn’t mentioned because … well, because the people raising the original question aren’t idiots, but that didn’t stop Fenn, who then went on to parrot the industry talking point that CBs are managed by their Accreditation Bodies, without knowing that this has been debunked on the very LinkedIn group he was responding to:
Accreditation Bodies are set up to ‘police’ CBs, so why not let them do their job? If you have a suspicion that a CB is breaking the rules, then you should make a complaint to the respective National Accreditation Body and let them properly investigate.
I responded by pointing him to just one case, that being the LRQA/UKAS scandal that is now in the hands of the IAF, and which is being investigated for possible criminal charges. To this. Fenn just dug in, citing more procedures:
I understand the frustration but there is a clear escalation process that the customer or any complainant can follow. If you believe you have the right evidence to prove, in effect, cheating and the Accreditation Body (AB) does nothing about it, then escalate to – in the case of the UK – the Government’s department for Business Innovation & Skills (BIS). It is BIS that provides the ‘license’ for UKAS to operate. Before we shout “not fair”, let’s make sure that proper processes and procedures are being followed… isn’t that what we are expecting from conformity to ISO standards in the first place?
What’s shocking is that Fenn apparently doesn’t even know about the IAF, since he just skipped them and went right to filing a complaint with the UK government. But his response is typical CB bullshit, designed to give all the appearance of a healthy, robust and orderly complaint process, but which actually does nothing more than lock up a complaint into years of endless bureaucratic red tape. Just escalating a complaint to the appropriate AB can take months, and then the AB is likely to take another 4-6 months to deliver their ruling. Escalating to the IAF is likely to add another 6 months, and putting it to the BIS? As one of my British pals said, “with a general election looming, you will probably have difficulty in getting a response.” So that means you could spend up to two years escalating a complaint only to have it ignored by a government if there happens to be an election on.
And that’s just for the UK. Imagine what it would it’s like Hungary, where the LRQA/UKAS thing is winding its way through the legal system. Suffice to say, that if your complaint was about anything related to your company’s certification, you would have lost it years before the complaint was ever resolved.
When confronted with this reality, Fenn dug in further, apparently becoming addicted to the taste of dirt one inevitably encounters when digging a hole of such depth:
Guys, clearly this is just another talking shop… if you truly want to right some wrongs then stop talking and start doing.
Ironically, Fenn then blocked me from messaging him, so he doesn’t seem to want anyone “doing” anything to him.
Too bad! His advice is so good, I suggest we start with the British Assessment Bureau. If any Oxebridge readers have an audit report issued by BAB in the past year or two, send it over. I’ll analyze it and find the (nearly inevitable) violations of ISO 17021, and we can file a complaint and see how well David Fenn does watching his own company go through the process. Or, if you have any other complaint against BAB — perhaps they’ve been engaged in some consulting of their own — send me the evidence.
Send it to this address. Anonymous senders are welcome, but be sure the evidence you provide is accurate and can be verified. Sources and any clients shown on the evidence will not be revealed without prior permission.
Hey remember the last time some smug incumbents claimed that people should shut up and stop posting on LinkedIn? That didn’t end so well for the incumbents, nor their entrenched position. At least one of them lost a job over it.
Ahh, progress…
UPDATE 13 March 2015:
As if following some weird hivemind script, Fenn has invoked religious metaphor in response to the (admittedly minor) outrage caused by his gaff. In response to one O-fan’s letter chastising him for his comments, Fenn claimed I branded him a “demonic character.”
If you want to think of me as some sort of demonic character, as portrayed by Christopher Paris, then so be it. But please also bear in mind that I am the same guy who ran the London marathon for my charity.
Fenn joins a host of other CB and certificate mill reps who “found religion” after being called out on their bad behavior:
- SGS rep Zachary Pivarnik called an official Oxebridge complaint an “inquisition.”
- Mike Kuklewski of the Dutch certificate mill QualityMasters called investigations into his company a crusade, akin to “crucifixion”
- Daryl Guberman said that questions about his self-accredited certificate mill operation were “antisemitic.”
At no point did I call him “demonic.” You know this because the full quantity of what I wrote about the guy appears above.
Rather, I think he’s just another overblown CB rep whose position of minor authority has given him an overblown sense of himself, and his profession, and who has utterly lost touch with the needs of his customers. Since running away from that reality is likely to take some effort, it’s a good thing he has marathon experience.
Remember, send those BAB audit reports to me. Let’s see if BAB is as compliant as Fenn thinks they are.
Christopher Paris is the founder and VP Operations of Oxebridge. He has over 35 years’ experience implementing ISO 9001 and AS9100 systems, and helps establish certification and accreditation bodies with the ISO 17000 series. He is a vocal advocate for the development and use of standards from the point of view of actual users. He is the writer and artist of THE AUDITOR comic strip, and is currently writing the DR. CUBA pulp novel series. Visit www.drcuba.world
