{"id":5168,"date":"2015-04-03T11:38:42","date_gmt":"2015-04-03T16:38:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/?p=5168"},"modified":"2015-04-13T17:15:59","modified_gmt":"2015-04-13T22:15:59","slug":"us-tag-leader-says-same-thing-they-made-someone-else-apologize-for","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/us-tag-leader-says-same-thing-they-made-someone-else-apologize-for\/","title":{"rendered":"[UPDATED] US TAG Leader Says Same Thing They Made Someone Else Apologize For"},"content":{"rendered":"

[UPDATED, see below.]<\/span><\/p>\n

As you know, recently US TAG member George Hummel made a boneheaded public statement, claiming <\/a>the TAG leadership expected ISO 9001 users to have a copy of ISO 9000 — the vocabulary standard — on hand during audits. This caused a problem, since the US TAG is not allowed to tell users what standards to buy in the first place, lest they be seen as the “sales division” of ANSI.<\/p>\n

Poor George was quickly reprimanded by the TAG leadership and made to post a public apology and retraction.<\/p>\n

Now, however, we find one of the US TAG’s own leaders, making the same argument in an article published on InsideStandards.<\/p>\n

Paul Palmes, the TAG’s alleged “ethics expert”, wrote what amounts to a sales piece for ANSI standards, while invoking his TAG leadership role. In a piece entitled “ISO 9000:2015 – What’s Normative Anyway?<\/a>,” Palmes makes the case that because he feels related standards like ISO 9000 and 9004 are “indispensable,” companies should therefore be obligated to buy them.<\/p>\n

Why do registrars not require that organizations provide a copy of ISO 9000 during audits?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The answer is that if registrars demanded the clients buy anything, they’d be engaged in a violation of international rules against prescribing specific actions, not to mention probably in violation of about a hundred antitrust laws. Those apply to the US TAG, too, who isn’t really allowed to falsely declare that ISO 9001 users have to buy other standards published by ANSI, who also happens to run the US TAG.<\/p>\n

Which makes his other comment even more problematic:<\/p>\n

Finally, when ISO 9001:2015 is released, take the package approach and obtain copies of the complete set of standards\u2014ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

You see, the US TAG has the responsibility for creating<\/em> <\/strong>standards, not selling them. The usage of such standards has been touted as “voluntary” which makes them legal under the WTO’s Technical Barriers to Trade regulations. The minute that such standards are no longer voluntary, they violate TBT, and ISO can be subject to global sanctions and massive fines. Following Palmes’ argument, buying the standards that his group conveniently produces should be mandatory.<\/p>\n

Finally,\u00a0you may have an opinion that something is “indispensable” but that doesn’t make it mandatory. I think frontal lobotomies may be indispensable for some folks, but I wouldn’t demand the state force Palmes to have one. It, like buying a copy of ISO 9000, should be optional.<\/p>\n

So, pity poor George Hummel forced to throw himself on his sword in public, denounce his previous posts, and publicly apologize.<\/p>\n

\"hummel2\"<\/p>\n

Will the TAG leadership demand the same of Paul Palmes? Will they have Paul publish a retraction in the same venue where he published his article?<\/p>\n

I’ve alerted the TAG leadership that such an apology should be forthcoming. We will see what they do, but no one should hold their breath without a few years’ of tanked oxygen next to their nightstand.<\/p>\n

[UPDATE 13 April 2015:]<\/span><\/p>\n

I posted a comment to the effect of this article on the Palmes piece; it sat in moderation for \u00a0few days, visible only to me, and then disappeared entirely. Editor Scott Paton elected not to publish it. The Palmes article remains intact, without a retraction or apology, and Paton is clearly part of the TAG spin machine.<\/p>\n

A good gig if you can get it.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Paul Palmes of the US TAG to TC 176 made a claim that, just a week ago, the TAG leadership reprimanded a member for saying. Will they force Palmes to apologize?<\/p>","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":5018,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","mc4wp_mailchimp_campaign":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[287,226,97,14,116,238,358,41],"class_list":["post-5168","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-opinion","tag-alka-jarvis","tag-ansi","tag-iso-9000","tag-iso-9001","tag-iso-90012015","tag-paul-palmes","tag-tc-76","tag-us-tag","et-has-post-format-content","et_post_format-et-post-format-standard"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5168","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5168"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5168\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5249,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5168\/revisions\/5249"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5018"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5168"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5168"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5168"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}