{"id":33951,"date":"2026-06-10T11:47:35","date_gmt":"2026-06-10T15:47:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/?p=33951"},"modified":"2026-06-10T16:45:56","modified_gmt":"2026-06-10T20:45:56","slug":"dekra-wont-fire-director-who-made-obscene-phone-call-to-oxebridge","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.oxebridge.com\/emma\/dekra-wont-fire-director-who-made-obscene-phone-call-to-oxebridge\/","title":{"rendered":"DEKRA Won’t Fire Director Who Made Obscene Phone Call to Oxebridge"},"content":{"rendered":"

[Profanity warning.]<\/em> In any other universe, this would be shocking, but we’re talking about ISO certification bodies, so this kind of behavior isn’t just on-brand, it’s actually encouraged. As they are about to celebrate another “World Accreditation Day<\/em>,” we should reflect on just how bad the accredited ISO certification scheme has become, and how far the CBs have sunk.<\/p>\n

Recently, I learned from two sources that DEKRA had begun imposing some unusual requirements for their AS9100 and ISO 9001 clients. According to the sources, DEKRA was going to write nonconformities if the client used the same third-party consultant for both QMS development and internal audits, citing this was a conflict of interest. I will have more on this in another article later, but the DEKRA position would thus make all<\/strong> <\/em>internal audits invalid, since technically employees tasked with performing internal audits also work for the same company they are auditing. The weird part was that DEKRA was threatening to audit the consultant’s resumes in order to somehow prove there was no conflict of interest.<\/p>\n

Yeah, this makes no sense: a person can be fully credentialled and still engage in conflict of interest. I don’t know why they are conflating impartiality with credentialing, except that DEKRA sells credentials.<\/p>\n

I posted about this on LinkedIn, tagging DEKRA Germany, since I thought that is where the interpretation came from. The post<\/a> was about a number of CB problems, but here’s the specific bit about DEKRA:<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

(Yes, I meant “restraint of trade<\/em><\/a>,” and it’s illegal, but typed it wrong.)<\/p>\n

DEKRA’s contract is with the client<\/strong><\/em>, not with every single employee of every single supplier the client might use, and they cannot start sniffing around personal records of third-party company employees. Heck, they don’t have NDAs in place with the suppliers for that, so it would be a violation of ISO 17021-1. Again, though, I will have more on that later.<\/p>\n

Never Answer Your Phone on Saturdays<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"

Kevin Campbell, apparently sober<\/p><\/div>\n

A few days later, on Saturday, May 30th, at around 12:30 noon, I received a phone call from the Technical Director and Aerospace Business Unit Manager for DEKRA North America, Kevin Campbell.<\/a> I want to emphasize that point: this was on a Saturday afternoon<\/strong><\/em>, when he knew I would be home relaxing.<\/p>\n

Now, let me preface this next part. The following in my opinion.<\/strong> <\/em>As in my First Amendment, Constitutionally-protected opinion.<\/p>\n

It seemed, to me, that Campbell was out-of-his-mind drunk or entirely drugged up<\/strong><\/em>. As soon as he began speaking, I realized something was wrong. I could barely understand him, as his words were so slurred. I even warned him, saying, “Kevin, this is not a conversation you want to have right now. This won’t end well<\/em>.” This was because he seemed so obviously intoxicated.<\/p>\n

The thrust of the call — which only lasted about three minutes — was that Kevin was furious about something. He never said what, exactly, but I surmised — between all the slurred words and screaming — that it was that LinkedIn post. He wanted to argue his position, which (I am guessing) came from him<\/strong><\/em>, not Germany at all. As he was shouting, I tried to get myself heard over him, citing the clauses, etc. He wasn’t having it.<\/p>\n

He began screaming. When I say “screaming<\/em>,” I mean it. Not shouting, not being loud. Screaming<\/strong><\/em>, at the top of his lungs. It was so loud, the others in my house heard it and my phone was not even on speaker, and I was out on the balcony.<\/p>\n

“FUCK YOU, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. READ THE FUCKING STANDARD! READ THE FUCKING STANDARD!”<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

At which point, I just hung up. I didn’t confront him, didn’t shout back. I just disconnected.<\/p>\n

Now, I’m a guy who routinely gets death threats. I have been accused of blackmail<\/a>, extortion<\/a>, terrorism<\/a>, and all sorts of things. Marc Smith at the Elsmar Cove spent 23 years of his life falsely accusing me of fraud, and only stopped because he went and died<\/a>. But I have never<\/strong> <\/em>been screamed at in the way that Campbell did. This was a whole new level of unhinged violence.<\/p>\n

Remember, this was on a Saturday, in my home, at noon, when I was supposed to be relaxing. This is what constitutes acceptable Director-level behavior by a DEKRA employee.<\/p>\n

Campbell wasn’t done. Because apparently he knew I might not be able to prove the phone call ever happened, he handed me evidence by sending me a snotty email.<\/strong><\/em> The email also appeared to be written in an intoxicated rage, and was sent from his official DEKRA account,<\/strong><\/em> invoking his DEKRA Director title.<\/p>\n

The subject line, with mangled spelling, was “What part of thi <\/em>[sic] don’t you understand?”<\/em> Here it is:<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

We were once again back to the problem of DEKRA citing “impartiality<\/em>” requirements when demanding credentials of third-party internal auditors, and the two are entirely separate issues. Ironically, it’s also a huge conflict of interest, since DEKRA sells both the “credentials<\/em>” they want auditors to have (here<\/a>), as well as internal auditing services (here<\/a>.) Apparently, “impartiality<\/em>” only applies to consultants<\/strong><\/em>, not CBs.<\/p>\n

With my weekend ruined, I did some checking on the DEKRA Code of Conduct (it’s here<\/a>) as well as AS9104 and ISO 17021-1. Of course, Campbell’s behavior violated all of that, as well as a few laws on telecommunications.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

I then wrote to DEKRA’s CEO, John Tesoro<\/a> and their legal counsel, Michael Kerns<\/a>. Kerns wrote back, but eventually opted out of the conversation, saying he wouldn’t involve himself until I was represented by counsel. I wasn’t threatening a lawsuit so far (so far), so that was fine. But I wanted to give DEKRA all the options, though.<\/p>\n

The next week, I had an emergency Teams meeting with Tesoro and DEKRA’s head of HR, Cherele LaVack<\/a>. I remained professional, cordial, and deferential. I explained what happened. Tesoro and LaVack feigned concern, promising to do something, and confirming that this conduct was not good for DEKRA.<\/p>\n

Then, nothing.<\/p>\n

DEKRA Does Nothing<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

A few days later, I received this email from Campbell, who was not<\/strong><\/em> fired as expected. In fact, other than a VP forcing him to make what would be an entirely performative apology phone call, he’s not only still the Technical Director, but he’s still the Lead Auditor on a number of my clients. (That will be interesting.)<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

I then wrote to the VP, Cem Onus<\/a>, and asked if Campbell was still working there. Onus ignored me entirely.<\/p>\n

I then wrote back to Tesoro and LaVack and expressed just how bad this all is. They also ignored me, and it now appears DEKRA has (predictably) cut off all communication.<\/p>\n

I did not<\/strong> <\/em>have the call with Campbell, although part of me realized it would have been easy enough to bait him into another screamfest while his VP was on the line, and record the entire thing. I just couldn’t be bothered.<\/p>\n

Here’s what’s so disgusting about this, apart from the whole screaming F-bombs part. Over the past few years, I recommended DEKRA to my clients without anything expected in returns. I asked for no referrals, no referral fees, no special treatment. DEKRA had gotten eleven clients from me, for absolutely free, with no strings attached. Campbell himself was promoted into his Director position partly due to the “sales<\/em>” he was bringing in, through me.<\/p>\n

What might have prompted this? Well, clearly Campbell was upset about the LinkedIn post, but he had also been embarrassed by me before.<\/p>\n

Years ago, Campbell declared that DEKRA would write nonconformities for clients if they did not copy-and-paste all the bullet points from ISO 9001\/AS9100 clause 8.4.3 on every outgoing purchase order. He and I chatted about that, and I explained he was wrong, but he would not budge. That conversation was cordial, ho0wever.<\/p>\n

But I didn’t let it go. I filed official requests for interpretation with both ISO TC 176 and IAQG ad, a year later, they both ruled in my favor<\/a>. They confirmed that no, the bullet points are not required, only applicable<\/strong> <\/em>ones are.<\/p>\n

I sent those rulings to Campbell, and he essentially said he didn’t care, and DEKRA would audit it his way, no matter what. I tabled that, knowing I can file an appeal — and automatically win, since I was armed with official ISO and IAQG rulings — if any DEKRA auditor tried to write a nonconformity on the issue. So far, they haven’t. Even the auditors at DEKRA know it’s ridiculous.<\/p>\n

So I suspect Campbell was still stinging from that loss, and realized he was setting himself up for another one with this latest interpretation. He is a guy who has to win, no matter what.<\/p>\n

I’m not sure he did, though.<\/p>\n

There is No Bottom<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Let’s say Campbell is correct, and DEKRA’s interpretation is entirely right. Let’s assume I am entirely wrong.<\/p>\n

Does that justify this level of behavior? It allows CB Directors to scream profanities and send insulting emails? And then to face absolutely zero consequences? As I told Tesoro, if he had made that call to him, Campbell would have been fired. If he had made that call to Kerns or LaVack or Onus, he would be fired. If he had made the call to ANAB or IAQG or a client, he would be fired. Heck, if he had an f-bomb meltdown at his local Starbucks, and the barista called to complain, he would probably be fired.<\/p>\n

He was only not fired because he had called a consultant<\/strong><\/em>, who DEKRA competes with.<\/p>\n

None of this matters. The DEKRA Code of Conduct doesn’t matter. Accreditation principles and standards don’t matter. Obeying the law doesn’t matter.<\/p>\n

There is no bottom that a CB cannot reach because they are entirely unaccountable. I suspect the only reason Tesoro and LaVack talked to me at all was because I cc’d their attorney, and they were worried about a lawsuit.<\/p>\n

Could I file a complaint with ANAB? Sure, but that won’t work either because ANAB is already experienced in this sort of thing. A while back, an NQA Director called a client of mine to shout at them<\/strong><\/em>, warning them it was a mistake to have hired me. We filed a complaint, and NQA ignored it. We escalated it to ANAB, who sided with NQA but in the most remarkable way ever: ANAB lied and said they were on the call,<\/strong><\/em> and that our account never happened. The problem for ANAB was that there were witnesses to the call — it was on speaker in a conference room — and it was also recorded<\/strong><\/em>. ANAB was never part of the call, and they totally fabricated a story to defend NQA.<\/p>\n

No doubt, ANAB would so the same here, insisting that Campbell had silently dialed them into the call and that they were listening the entire time, and that Campbell was a gentle little lamb.<\/p>\n

Could I file a complaint with DEKRA Germany? Sure, I might. But I think we know that will get tossed out, too.<\/p>\n

Could I sue? Maybe, but what would I get?<\/p>\n

As I said, there is no bottom. CBs and ABs can break the law, violate ethics codes, engage in fraud and threats, defame critics, and anything else they like. The IAF has stopped all accreditation oversight, the ABs no longer do their job, and the entire scheme has turned into a massive, Mafia-style protection racket.<\/p>\n

So long as DEKRA pays ANAB, they can count on ANAB to defend them.<\/p>\n

In the end, all we can do is publish these stories and let the market decide. For now, I have removed DEKRA from the list of recommended CBs, and alerted the clients I have where Campbell is, himself, their auditor, letting them know there may be a conflict coming up if he tries to write me up for some made-up nonconformity. If companies want to take the risk of hiring a certification body that allows its Directors and Lead Auditors to call representatives of clients on the weekend to scream profanities at them, then they are free to do so.<\/p>\n

At least they will know what they are getting into.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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