A A A

Welcome to The O-Forum! Read this first! Then, feel free to introduce yourself here! If you need immediate, real-time support for the Oxebridge ISO 9001 or AS9100 Template Kits, click here to join our Slack chat channel.

Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Strange Incentives for Client Managers
Related Tags
Avatar
Deepthroat
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
4 April, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
4 April, 2017 - 4:27 AM
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Anyone heard about the strange sales incentives for some client managers ?.

Here is how it works, the CM raises an NC against internal auditor training.

The client is then put in as a sales lead for training.

When the training sale is made with the same company as the Auditor the CM gets some money.

Kerching !

Avatar
Mu Beta
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 54
Member Since:
7 June, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
5 April, 2017 - 7:38 AM
sp_Permalink sp_Print

My immediate response to any auditor trying to do this would be to ask him which clause he is writing me up against.

There is NOTHING in the standard to say what training your internal auditors must have. As lead internal auditor with a training qualification, I train mine in-house and on-the-job, and they get a damn sight more information and supportĀ than they’ll get out of most external agencies.

9001:2015 also clearly indicates that it is up to companies to determine their own competency requirements. If I have documented that Internal Auditors may be untrained then there is nothing they can make stick.

Avatar
Christopher Paris
Admin
Forum Posts: 682
Member Since:
5 December, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
5 April, 2017 - 11:14 AM
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yeah, I used to see this sort of thing in the 90’s but it tapered off. The CBs are more aggressive about selling auditor training, but to their credit I don’t see them using audits to sell it. They do use audits to sell general “implementation” training which irks me, since that’s a direct competition to me. But whatever…

Avatar
Deepthroat
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
4 April, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
6 April, 2017 - 12:51 PM
sp_Permalink sp_Print

While I agree with the point that the client should argue with the finding, it is often easier to accept the issue and roll over. The Brits are not as good at debate as the Americans. The issue is one of power and being forced to accept Training from the certification body. While there is nothing in ISO 17021 that forbids this, it seems something that could lead to a risk to reputation for the CB. Perhaps is just ignored as the CB is so big.

Avatar
Christopher Paris
Admin
Forum Posts: 682
Member Since:
5 December, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
11 April, 2017 - 10:03 PM
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’d say that 90% of the time (based on my observations), US clients also roll over. It’s a calculation They have already spent tens of thousands of dollars on prepping for the audit, often just agreeing with the auditor and typing some words on paper is worth it. It’s not worth fighting over.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 64
Currently Online:
4
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Mu Beta: 54
dozza: 32
royplchan: 28
jo9977: 23
annie: 23
KH: 20
wayintense: 14
jdgill1963: 13
Richard Billings: 12
TJ: 12
Newest Members:
zim
riczTG
Alanw
Graham
Risk Culture Builder
Crit
godlymg
ILonaK
Viharpatel66
onizefi
Forum Stats:
Groups: 13
Forums: 43
Topics: 769
Posts: 1636

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1
Members: 1708
Moderators: 1
Admins: 1
Administrators: Christopher Paris
Moderators: OQRI